Wednesday, October 13, 2010

Because this Blog Screams for MORE SELF PORTRAITS!

At 9:16 last night, when the children were in bed asleep I made a final announcement.

"So we go downstairs and write this post, or we end it all tonight, sell everything we have, and move to Idaho. Those are our choices," I announced to Chup.

The heaviness I felt about writing a post about my personal beliefs, about my religion and my family and how it would be perceived had been pulling me down. I was sick, I was anxious, I was secretly making alternate life plans.

And for an hour we debated. I mean seriously debated. Chup looked at the floor, picked a fuzzy off the couch and rubbed it on the top of his lip--indications of serious thought. We calculated out loud what we could get for everything--$50 for the lawnmower, $200 for the yellow couch, plus a priceless ticket of private sanity. I mean, we were at 85% ready to hightail.

I leaned towards the Sell Everything and Move to Idaho Idea. I hadn't even written the post and already the jury was out. It was so consuming you'd think I was the secretary of state. Writing about this now, twenty four hours later, I have calmed down, but at the time I despised how this decision was eating at my soul. I felt dark, angry and horribly sad, and I was tempted to regret decisions I had made to be a public blogger instead of a paperback writer. (Beatles song?)

"Let's go downstairs and I will sit there and see if the post comes to me, if it comes to me I will write it, if it doesn't we will apologize to everyone and make our escape plans."

And so Chup and I headed to the office in our dungeon. He sat at the table on the laptop and I joined him across the room on the computer. I sighed. He sighed. Then I decided to check my email.

There were so many messages of hope, encouragement and readers promising me they would pray for me that night as I sat down to write the post. It was a cache of kindness-a treasure I didn't expect to open at that point. I was overwhelmed as I opened letter after letter--Chup and I started reading them together on our respective machines. The last email we read was from our friend Jen in Texas. She wrote such a genuine, supportive email I was wondering if Chup had paid her to do it. Like maybe he had already sold our lawnmower and sent the cash southward . . .?

Plus Azucar, beeping text messages to me, "Anything I can get for you?"

So I wrote the post. It came out of me like lava from an active volcano (was that simile as good for you as it was for me?) and when I finished the first draft I told Chup to take a look.

"It's good," he concluded.

In Chupacabre language good means: great. It was what I wanted to say and it was said. And Chup, in his hard-to-please reluctance, called it good.

We spent the rest of the evening working on drafts to clarify points and pick a part thoughts. In all the years I have been writing, we've never collaborated like this--not so earnestly, so honestly and so late into the night. At four o'clock we were done.

"Before we publish let's go through all the arguments we are going to hear tomorrow, and decide if we are still confident in this post," Chup suggested.

"You didn't answer the question. You didn't make any sort of point. You created this whole controversy for traffic. You built all this up for nothing. You are a fence sitter. You want to please everyone. You want fame. You want to be popular. You hate me. You are stupid. You are silly.  You are bad example for your/our church. You are a bigot/racist/elitist. You are a#$%!$%^&*. You don't get it. You are ignorant. You are fat."

"I still feel okay about it," I said after we exhausted the possibilities, "except the "You are fat part'. Don't I still get to claim postpartum?"

But Chup never cares about the fat stuff--he never even gives it the energy to respond.

"I feel good about it too," he said bowing about the dungeon in his tallness.

And so we went to bed.

Chup read me the comments in the morning. Not all of them, just the earnest ones. The honest ones. The ones who care (a nod to you, my loyal friend Fresh Hell, Texas!) The only comment I actually read myself was from someone proposing my purpose in writing this blog is for money. Lucre. Riches. Fortune. An aerodynamic chair that doesn't wad up my neck when I am working. (Actually, check! That one is true!)

If only they knew. First, there is no spilling lucre, and secondly at my very primitive point I write to impress my husband. To woo him with words and please him with cleverness. This whole blog is a mating call. A public mating call I started in the throes of infertility. And now we are two-children deep. So I think it is working.

(If yesterday's post didn't phase you, tonight's confession might do the job.)

I suspect one day Chup will say to me "That is enough woman". And then we'll sell everything and move to Idaho.

But it might be a while. Did I mention he is hard to please?

*photo up top is not an actual self-portrait because Chup took it. Do you think I look like a lioness?

I present: Sarah Sample!

Read with caution!

I am c jane and I am a writer. I just decided.
contact me:
c jane on facebook 
c jane on twitter


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This Girl loves to Talk said...

I liked this post!

I did not comment on the last two posts... I wanted to though. First one I thought I'm not gonna touch that with a ten foot pole... then I chuckled and thought now the title makes sense. I would have been one of the first commentors on that one, but didnt comment and was up half the night thinking of 'what I would write' if I did..

Then yesterdays post was NOT what I thought it would be. Then I thought, you know what.. that is so cjane. People expected quotes from apostles and scripture etc. An answer to that lady's question. But you answered in the quintesential cjane way. thoughts, musings, poetry flowing from you. Not a stock standard answer.

You must be a writer because I check your writing everyday!

Maggie May said...

Well Mrs. CJane, you have done yourself proud in my opinion.

I am a liberal, non religious girl with a rather rough upbringing. And I love your voice. And I was bracing myself for hearing something from you that would be really hard to hear. And then I thought, even if...

she says things that make me cry...

I still really love her voice. At some point in almost every relationship, there is a reveal (revelations, reveal...) about that person's thinking or life that you find upsetting, even painful to know about. You really don't like it.

And the choice is do we discard entire human beings because we disagree? Or do we ultimately have to accept, if we want to be close to people, that they are going to dissapoint us, shock us, even make us really pissed off? I think so. I think that is part of marriage. And friendship.

ANd blogging.

So I'm saying:

good job


i'm still here.


Natalie said...

I love how you said what you needed to say and then you owned it. That is a true testimony.

Anonymous said...

She didn't own anything. She just wrote a bunch of crap - trying to not tick off her mormon readers and trying to not lose her non-mormon readers by writing an entire post- ABOUT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
Way to go Cjane!
And yes, more self portraits... please!!!! That's what I do all day. Take pictures of myself. Or have other people take pictures of me.

Emily said...

I am with Natalie. I might almost like this post better than yesterday's because it tells the story behind the post. I like the story.

Brooke said...

Thanks so much for your courage Courtney. I have been feeling a conflict in my heart about this very issue. But what you wrote articulated just what I feel my heart was trying to tell it was on the tip of my tounge, I guess you would say tip of my heart in this case. LOVED IT! So beautiful. As for the people who say they're confused about your answer...they just want you to give a simple answer to a very complicated issue and shame on them. LOVE YA! Thanks again!

Rachel in Vancouver said...

c jane, I have been reading your blog for many many months now but have never commented. I am from Vancouver, Canada, and I have met exactly one Mormon in my entire life. In fact, I met him about the same time I discovered you and Nie, and before that I knew almost nothing about the LDS faith. I grew up a Catholic but ran kicking and screaming from that institution when I was about 15. It may have been my priest, or the unique cultural circumstances of my church, but there was never any connection between church and Faith. It was entirely about keeping up appearances, and doing everything the right way. Anyways, on good days I consider myself an agnostic, on bad days I consider myself an existential atheist. But on really bad days, like yesterday, I read your blog, and find comfort in it. I live in a city where LGBT people are actively encouraged to be whoever they want to be, and some of the sweetest (and married!) couples I know are gay. We celebrate love in all of its forms. I feel that you celebrate love as well. There is so much spiritual love that pours out of your blog, and if I can allow myself to believe in God, I certainly feel that He guides your writing, and sometimes it seems as though a message in one of your posts speaks directly to me. I'm not sure where I'm going with this; I've ended up just rambling. But thank you for so being so fearlessly honest in your writing. It is filled with all the love and spirituality that was missing when I went to church as a kid. My interpretation of what you wrote is that LDS doctrine teaches the importance of family, with a husband and wife and kids, and yet, God created all these people with same sex attraction, and he must have some purpose for it that has not been revealed to you. Thank you for admitting you do not have the answer to this question. Possibly you have an entirely different answer to a question you didn't even realize you were being asked. Possibly I make no sense at all. I just hope Chup tells you that your writing makes me feel a glimmer of something greater than anything I have ever known.

Anonymous said...

This blog pays your bills, does it not? So of course you write for money.

deemom said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Karen said...

You've done a beautiful job with this... honesty and an open heart. I don't share belief in your religion, however in reading your blog, I would have no problem believing in YOU.. you go, girl.

K. Lindsay said...

I think if you are going to leave a hateful comment, you should be brave enough to leave your name. Cowards hide behind anonymous. If you hate the blog so much, stop reading it. It's that simple.

K. Lindsay said...

I think if you are going to leave a hateful comment, you should be brave enough to leave your name. Cowards hide behind anonymous. If you hate the blog so much, stop reading it. It's that simple.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous - maybe if your husband was home all day long with nothing to do but serve you, maybe you'd have more self portraits too! You should try it - just start a blog, and tease people to get them reading, and fill them with crap, and then, have your husband quit his job and sit around at home, and sit in your piles of money....try it!!

Anonymous said...

Just slightly self centered, don't 'cha think?

Jen said...

I think you did a fantastic job! The question posed to you was one that NO ONE could answer without angering SOMEONE SOMEWHERE SOMEHOW. Points to you for even touching the subject at all when you could have just as easily ignored it and no one, except the person who posed the question would be any wiser. What I took from your post was that you believe in your Heavenly Father, you support the presidency of the church and their teachings and that everyone deserves their own opinion such as it is. What you ultimately feel has absolutely NO bearing WHATSOEVER on the teachings of the church and it's unfair to ask you to comment on the subject knowing that some will see YOUR opinion as the position that the church takes, when that is entirely untrue. I LOVE your blog, I Love your writing and I LOVE that you would agnonize over this one person's comments that it would keep you awake nights - it means that you DO care about others and their thoughts and beliefs but you care enough of your own to know not to compromise them. Put up your Gold Star for the day - you totally deserve it!

Totally unrelated: my word verification today is "undees" How funny is that?

Nicole said...

I didn't comment on the last two either, but I wanted to say thanks. It made me think, and have a debate with my husband, and contemplate the world. I sat around reading the comments and well occupied me.
I did love this.
But then again I loved yesterday too, I think.
Personally, I love your blog. When the kids are running around in the morning, I escape with my daily dose of cjane.
And if you wrote paperbacks, I would buy them.

PS-at the visitor's center in Kansas City a few weeks ago I was watching the Josepn Smith movie and I thought "Hold up, I know who that guy is! It's Cjane's husband!"

Butternutsage said...

I didn't feel eloquent enough to comment so I just read and admired from afar. I love your writings and your thoughtfulness in them. I love your little family. Like you I get all skeezy with comments on my blog both good and bad, so I sympathise, I wish I could learn to ignore the bad but, that is what makes us grow. So on that note, GROW ON GIRL! I'll be watching for new blooms! Hugs~Donna from Massachusetts

Jessica said...

I can't believe you have the courage to open yourself up to this. You are obviously making a difference and I am grateful that there are people willing to be loving, steadfast, public examples of this Church.

I couldn't be a bigger fan.

Amanda said...

Like some of the others - I didn't comment over the past couple of days, either. I'm one of those liberal, non-religious types as well.
I'm also a regular, loving reader of your blog. I love hearing your perspective, and the beautiful way in which you always, share it. Open. Honest. Non-challenging. Poetic. "Here I am, I am me."
And even if I don't agree, I am open to listen.

Permanence is an illusion, change - even revelation - is fact and is part of our journey here in this world.

I, too, am proud of you! xoxo

My B.O.M. Blog: Reflections on Lessons said...

Brief Background for Utah Media and Other Interested Parties on the Facts about the Causes of Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change
Prepared by Family Watch International,
Homosexual activist groups like Human Rights Campaign (HRC) are spreading misinformation about the causes of homosexuality and the possibility for change to heterosexual orientation. This misinformation can result in misdirected public policy and serious, often tragic consequences, for individuals with unwanted same-sex attraction. A recent high profile example of this misinformation effort can be seen in portions of the response of HRC and other similar groups to Elder Boyd K. Packer’s recent LDS General Conference talk, which many interpreted to declare that homosexuality is not “inborn.” In HRC’s “open letter” to Elder Packer the group calls on him to “acknowledge” what HRC claims is “the scientific truth: sexual orientation cannot be changed, nor should it be.”
Contrary to what HRC asserts, there is ample evidence from both scientific research and clinical experience that homosexuality is not an innate and immutable trait such as race or gender and that individuals can change, and many do. Listed below are some points raised by medical and mental health professionals for the media and other interested parties to consider that substantiate these assertions and some of their implications. Many more sources and individual studies are also available.
Members of the Utah media and others are encouraged to challenge HRC and associated groups on their false assertions regarding the nature of same-sex attraction.

Steph said...

Piles of money? A husband just sitting around? How lucrative do you think this blogging business IS, anyway? Sheesh.

Anger, jealousy, bitterness...I don't understand; you don't like the essay a middle-class suburban stay-at-home mom in Provo Utah wrote about her views, in between posts about her baby's cool onesie and quesadillas? And this makes you FURIOUS? She's not the friggin' pope, she's a writer who happens to be Mormon, and bothers to acknowledge requests from readers on her view of things. I'm so annoyed by all of this.

I'd love to just never come into the comments section and read this blog as though it's a book and not worry about what other people have to say about it, but your nasty comments are affecting the author's writing and that affects and bothers me. And my morning coffee and smile routine. This is the first place I go when I come in to work every morning, and your misplaced and exaggerated anger is messing with my absolute favorite 5 minutes of the day.

My B.O.M. Blog: Reflections on Lessons said...

Church Responds to HRC Petition

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Oct 12 2010 — Salt Lake City

News Release

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued the following statement through a spokesman following the delivery of a petition by the Human Rights Campaign (broadcast quality video (.mov) and audio (.mp3) is available for media use. A YouTube version can be viewed or embedded here):

My B.O.M. Blog: Reflections on Lessons said...

mooneyequalsmc2 said...

All of that angst to say "love each other?" Really?

You are talented, no doubt, but sometimes all of your beautiful, flowy words exhausts me.

I, also, was bracing myself for a strong opinion. One that might ostracize but would be clear and honest. It didn't matter what side you landed on, I read many blogs and respect all opinions, I just hoped that you would be CLEAR.

The entire time I was reading I kept thinking that you were trying not to offend your parents more than your readers.

Of course, you didn't have to answer it at all. So thanks for trying to explain.

Momof5 said...

I hope you never sell out, because you are worthy to be an awesome sweet Princess of the Almighty Heavenly Father that gave you a purpose for this season of your life. I love how your blog can bring out the wolves! I hope you embrace them as much as the wonderful comments. Their lives are changing as well, or that wouldn't be quite so upset. God is amazing, isn't he? To bring an infertility blog from a gal in Utah to the ends of the earth to expose His Glory! You go girl!
If you do sell out, I want the couch. Just sayin'.....

Kait said...

I think you wrote the last post brilliantly. I almost never comment or read the comments on this blog because I'm two kids deep too and who has time for that?

I think your last post perfectly encapsulated the entire issue that I, and many others, have been struggling with - how can we take the stand (towards the issue) that our religion is taking without also taking that same stand against the people? And do we really WANT to stand against those people? Believing my religion is right doesn't mean I have the right to implement those rules against others without their belief or consent. But how can I turn my back on my religion, my guiding principles, my entire belief system?

Jesus said love and so I love and hope that the rest will be revealed to me as it needs to be.

I love your writing and I love your blog. I think you're incredibly brave to allow those mean anonymous comments to stand. And I think you're incredibly brave to tackle such a topic with conviction, even if people say you didn't say anything. I think you said everything you had to say. It's enough.

Stacie said...

CJane, I read you everyday. I read about your walks with your son and baby stuff as intently as I did this last post. And I don't even have children! One of my very best friends is gay. She has a great life. For her, being a lesbian wasn't a choice. She was born that way. I have seen the damage done to people in the periphery of a person that isn't true to the God-given nature they were born with. Getting married and having kids then reaching your 40's and realizing you can't keep up the charade and THEN coming out and destroying the make-up of the pretended straight family life...that is tragic. That particular pain reaches into far more lives, I think, then acceptance of who you are and the associated decisions made in living honestly. I am not associated with any organized religions. I suppose if I were to align myself with any one person on this planet living now, it would have to be Byron Katie. She espouses The Work, which is a method of questioning your thoughts...and finding out that in the end, your thoughts about any particular subject matter may be right, or not. Just because you think something, doesn't make it true. But to have the courage to question your thoughts, which in turn forces you to examine your belief structure, is what makes us uniquely human. And that is why I read your blog everyday. Well done. I don't read your blog to find a voice that mimics my own. That is just lazy. I read it to understand more about a woman's view whose life is vastly different from my own. Love you are a good writer. said...

Courtney did answer the question asked of her. If you are one if the people who didn't get it or felt it was unclear, you need to go back and reread her post and then read Elder Hollands article with an open mind and a prayerful heart. The answers are there--you have to seek them out. We each have to find our own enlightenment on such a difficult topic. I loved what Courtney wrote.

Anonymous said...

Dear Courtney,
I am a Mormon, living in Europe. Right after we heard Elder Packer's talk my husband and I knew that it would start big discussions in the US. I read your blog and your response and I think you did a good job.
Here's a very, very interesting blog of a (gay) mormon guy - he represents what a ssa-lds-member can achieve and learn with the gospel of Jeus Christ. For all who can't understand that the church is so clear about moral laws, read his posts, he is a great writer and he perfectly understands why the church is determined to stay on course. He is a great example. -
"cleansing the inner vessel" means not to act upon temptations, although we feel them around us or inside us.

lori said...

I also did not know if I wanted to read your response to the reader's question. What if you said something that opposes how I feel? Would I still be able to read you and respect your opinions?

Honestly, I think your response was beautiful, heart-felt and true for you. That's the real beauty. We can all have different beliefs, thoughts and opinions - and they can change - at anytime.

What you do on your blog is amazing. You open up your life, your struggles, and your triumphs for all to see - for all to critique. While what you say resonates with me, I don't think I would be so brave to let everyone see my insecurities, my beliefs, my daily struggles and triumphs.

Bless you for being you and teaching me to embrace life a little bit more each day. While I may not be a particularly religious person, I do believe that god did create all men and woman in his image equally. That is the only thing that matters and that we must all remind ourselves when faced with someone we deem different.

Katie said...

I shudder to think of a world where, "I don't know, but I am/will search for the answer." is not an acceptable response. That, I think, is one of the wisest things a person can say.

Better yet when it is followed with, "I do know that everyone deserves love and respect."

Shari said...

The reason why I read your blog is because it normally brings a smile to my face and that was no exception this morning except this morning I laughed out loud because I read the comment a few days ago about bloggers and self protraits and I thought this was a great response to it.

I live in Idaho and admired the red and orange sky over the Tetons on my way to work and I said a little prayer of gratitude for living in Idaho. It was a pretty spectacular view. Idaho would be a good place to live- just saying!

Anonymous said...

so, what was her answer since you know?

lawdy said...

move.move.move.Idaho. Idaho. Idaho.
it's calling your name.

bethany said...

I don't believe you should stop blogging...but if you move to Idaho you should move in by me!!

Anonymous said...

A complex topic like homosexuality and human rights deserves more.

Young people are killing themselves every day over their struggles for acceptance of their homosexuality.

Life long couples don't have the same rights to look after each other as they get older.

The struggle families are faced when someone's homosexuality is revealed.

Painful, complex, sensitive.

Cjane's response is that she *chose* to address such a topic because...she's wooing her husband?

That's such irresponsible. For shame.

If you think about it, all topics can be discussed using flowery language. Tacky relatives have used this device for centuries! :)

Courtney, discuss your family, but please, don't try to tackle harder truths with flowery language. It really doesn't do any service.

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much for standing up. For taking a stand. For not moving to Idaho :)
You did what was right and true. I admire you for that. I was praying for you the past few days, as well. And will continue to do so.
I loved your post yesterday and today. Thanks for being a voice for so many.
I feel bad for those who read and become so angry. They must have hard things to deal with in their lives.

Reenie said...

Cjane I love you and your blog, and your family. =)

I have several gay friends and am very proud to say they are my friends, and I would do anything for them....and vice versa. And...I go to "their" Bar and I'm welcomed with open arms. They are beautiful people....just like you and I.


Em said...

Your post spoke to me and strenghtened my own testimony. I printed it off so my husband could read it. I posted it on my FB and I even wrote my own blog about it. Homosexuals are not killing themselves because of their inner angst- they're killing themselves because of the hatred shown to them in the world. You reminded people to LOVE and that's really all this world needs, isn't it!?
I want to badly to retaliate and say something to all those negative 'anonymous' comments, but really, they're not worth the time.

Erin said...

Isn't it interesting how the trolls are always anonymous?

I have to admit I am at odds with this subject (I have a gay brother in law, and the talk given by Elder Packer really shook me up, and not in a good way). But thanks for sharing your opinion on your blog! (To tell you the truth, I think I was too scared/wimpy to even attempt writing about it on my blog.) (I love parentheses.)

sarahjean said...

You should move to Idaho anyway... It's beautiful here.
Thank you for sharing. I thought you did a wonderful job in this post and yesterdays post in expressing your beliefs and really my beliefs also (although you didn't know you'd do that right?)
No matter your reasons for blogging, i will keep reading cause I think you're fantastic!

Jen said...

How did the woman who originally asked THE question, feel about your "answer"?

I hope she felt the spirit that others of us felt.

Just so curious!

Could you write the ending?


Lindsay Chipman said...

I just want to say I don't know you but I love you for your courage to stand up for what you believe, I hope if I was put in the same situation I could. Who knows maybe with the recent happenings in my family I will get to have the chance to be as brave as you. Thank you.


Katie H said...

I like the lionness look!

I thought your response was good...well-thought out & deliberate. I read you all the time but comment only infrequently.

I also believe there are far more people that love you & don't believe you're fat (you're not, by the way) than the nay-sayers that do...

We love you for your earnestness, your down-to-earth attitude, & your cheeky comments. I look forward to reading you daily. I mean it.

Fresh Hell, Texas said...

I was up last night thinking about your post and I woke up knowing I had to write to you. I was going to write to you in private but reading your words this morning, I knew I had to do it here.

I want to apologize for letting the attacks on you and your religion, go by without one word from me.

How can I advocate for love, compassion and, most of all, tolerance when I read those things and said nothing? I cannot.

My passion that prop 8 was wrong, the involvement of churches in it even more so, and the anger over the real harm to real people is unchanged. I completely understand the hurt and anger from GLBTQ people and their families.

But is a difference between someone speaking from the center of their pain and someone with a little more space, which is the place I am in presently. I know that and pretended I didn't yesterday. For that, I am sorry.

Chatty Natty said...

C- I think you did a fine job and while I was nervous for you, I knew it would all end up ok because it always does.

Why don't you bring your sitting husband and piles of money up to Idaho anyway. We could use a little spice this winter!

ps-still waiting for your visit:)

Fowler family said...

Maybe someone has already mentioned this- I do think it is important to note that Packer's text WAS actually changed by the church/edited in certain areas after he gave his talk. If you compare the written with the audio version online, you will see where it has been changed. ... I believe in our prophet, in his apostles, don't get me wrong. I just think as important as it is to show our support to Elder Packer, it is equally important to realize what was changed, so we clearly understand what the church/prophet's stance is on the subject. I think the fact that things were edited is important for us to know. As well as we should become acquainted with what things Elder Packer may have said in his talk that were inappropriate or not right. Does that make sense?
Some of the things that were changed were:
*tendencies was changed to temptations
*"Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?" was taken out
You can do your own comparison here with the text:,5232,23-1-1298-23,00.html

and audio: (right around 9:00)

This comment is long-just had to share what I think is important to take into consideration.

Julie said...

I still don't understand why you were so worked up over the post. I mean, yes, the subject matter is "controversial" - I hope it doesn't have to be someday - but you really did not provide any kind of an opinion! You may as well be a politician alluding a very difficult question. Why did you even approach the gay/lesbian debate if you were not even going to voice your opinion? You should have just stayed silent and let the gay promoters/bashers hash out their rants somewhere other than your blog comments. Even if you had a differing opinion than others AT LEAST I could give you a little more respect for sticking your neck out there. Instead you basically put out a public service announcement for your church, a very general one at that...

Lynne said...

Don't run away to Idaho ... what would we all do without you? I've read most of the comments on the other post & am stumped that people didn't think you answered the question. You summed up my thoughts & feelings PERFECTLY! Today as I read some more I'm just almost laughing. Why do we make things so much more difficult than they need to be. Is it a difficult subject? Yes! I've struggled with trying to understand it when my 1st 'friend' told me he was gay. And I've had many friends since. But... that doesn't change my beliefs and what I know to be true.

Your words are accurate & true & those without promptings of the Spirit might not understand the beauty of your expression & explanations.

Keep up the good work!

cw said...

As someone who can say both "I knew you when" and "I used to read you way back then," I still say that of all your posts, the ones I love the most are the ones your write about you and your Chup (but the photo you posted yesterday is one of my all-time favorites!). And I often want to give it all up and sell everything to move to Idaho. Idaho is lovely (in many places).

In other news--I have soap for you. I can drop it by one of these times I pick up Luke from school (which is almost every day). You have my number...

And you're not the secretary of state? Why not?

Anonymous said...

Kind of disappointing all around. CJane posts about the letter stating that she will answer the questions and give her view on the subject.
Then, the following day, she publishes a response that hides any stated opinion in poetics. Even more disappointing that CJane doesn't read the comments.

Amy said...

I have never left a comment, but this time I had to...
I love what Natalie said: "I love how you said what you needed to say and then you owned it. That is a true testimony." I second that!

If your readers don't like what you wrote, then they don't need to read your blog. It's that simple. As for the rest of us, we will read on with smiles and tears, wonder and amusement, looking forward to each new post.

I too am a member of the LDS church with an uncle who is gay. It's not something we talk about, but it's there. I love him, it's as simple as that. Jesus taught us to love everyone, judgement is not up to us.

I am sorry that you have received such discouragement. Write on cjane, write on. You speak the words we are too chicken to speak, you are the voice for all of us!

Those who are critical but won't leave a name, get a life and leave cjane to her own.

Love, prayers, thoughts, and smiles are headed your way. We would LOVE it if you moved to Idaho, though. (It's really nice here!) So move if you want, but blog on forever!!!!

Ms. Natalie said...

You're not blog is PURELY to entertain/impress my husband. I will make him read posts as I sit there eagerly waiting for the laughter and the..."that was good" saying. {In my husband's language that also means great}. I love how you called it a mating call.

I think your post yesterday was perfect. You said so much without saying too much. I really liked it. Good job!

Judy said...

Beware, cjane. Elder Oaks & Elder Ballard have both spoken warnings on public forums such as this blog. Inspect your heart on a regular basis, pray, and proceed accordingly...

"Certainly no faithful follower of God would promote any cause even remotely related to religion if rooted in controversy, because contention is not of the Lord."

"false teachings of those who read by the lamps of their own conceit"

"...some alternate voices are pursuing selfish personal interests, such as property, pride, prominence, or power."

Hope said...

think of what testimony meeting would be like if people stood up and uttered their own poetic mumbo jumbo. what would be gained by not stating a knowledge or belief, but instead spewing language that can be interpreted in any number of ways? i think your post was indulgent and unproductive...maybe even harmful.

Vickie Blanchard said...

Yes Courtney, a lionness at the gate. (That is a good thing.) If I didn't love you before these last two posts (and I did) than I do now (even more). Seriously, this post made me smile and laugh out loud, in such a good way.

cozzmesteph said...

Just once I would like to know why people who don't like what you write still read your blog.

Is somebody out there really that bored/hateful? Sheesh, get a life!

I like both this post and the last one. In fact, I like them all.

And I hope you ARE making piles of money because anybody who catches as much crap as you do (and yet still perserveres) deserves it.

Anonymous said...

Your last post was very disappointing. Are you really confused about the subject of gays and lesbians, or the desire to please everybody is just too strong to write your honest opinion?

Laura said...

I wouldn't mind if you moved to Idaho, because maybe then I'd get to meet you! I live in the same town as Chup's parents. Anyway, if you ever DO move to Idaho, I hope you'll still keep blogging. I love your words and you make me smile. And you inspire confidence in me, too. So, thanks!

And PS - Fat? Really? Hardly. You're gorgeous and perfect just the way you are! :) I still claim postpartum and my baby is 15 months.

Lynne said...

I just have to ask one more question... and I think this is what bothers me about this whole subject. Is it really all about gay marriage or.... is it wanting to condone immoral behaviour if you have homosexual tendencies? As a, dare I say it - "49" year old heterosexual member of the LDS Church I am expected to live a moral, chaste life. Is it hard - duh! But why should it be different for a homosexual? THAT is the crux of my frustration! My sexuality is not who I am, a portion of that, but not my entirety (misspelled). Why then should gays be completely defined by their sexuality?

A simple girl who decided long age she wouldn't understand many things... and gave up trying! :)

Lynne said...

uh-oh... I forgot to say 49 year old SINGLE member of the LDS church.

madsta said...

Don't move to Idaho Until I've made it to Utah.
Whatevs, your awesome and so was the post, and if blogs are a public mateing call, mine is broken!
And FYI I take pictures of myself all the time. because sometimes, It's fun!

tharker said...

I usually comment on your blog, but didn't and couldn't yesterday because every time I tried, I just couldn't seem to properly express what I was feeling and thinking. After thinking about it all day yesterday and praying about it, and thinking about it some more, I think I can finally put into words some of my thoughts.

When I first read your post yesterday, I will admit I was confused. I didn't quite get what you were trying to say. At first it felt like you hadn't really taken a firm stand on anything either way. But then I read it again. And then again. And I think I get it.

What it all boils down to is so simple, it's almost ridiculous. Love. Pure and simple love.

If I try to think about it too hard, it all gets jumbled up, but then I keep coming back to the simple reality that we are put here on this earth by a loving Father in Heaven. He created us all. Differently. Oh, so differently. We have been commanded...COMMANDED to love one another. I have so much work to do in this area, but I am trying. I want to come to the point that when I look at another person, I only view them as God views them. Precious and loved. I'm not there yet, but I am trying.

Fresh Hell, Texas,
After reading through the comments yesterday and ESPECIALLY after reading your comment this morning, I have all the respect in the world for you! What a remarkable person you are and what a wonderful example you are to me.

You are a dear, dear woman to me. I thank you for these thought provoking posts. Don't move to Idaho!

La Yen and Carrot Jello and Azucar,
Sometimes I read the comments purely to see what you have to say! Thank you for lightening things up! Love every word.

Anonymous said...

Advocate for love and acceptance:

As a wonderful blogger shared: You don't get to tell children that they are not natural, a violation of of the word of God and other things that drive them to kill themselves and then hang onto your false belief that it's not hateful.

It is hateful. Pain, even cloaked in beautiful words is pain.

Cjane, keep sharing your compassion. That is the voice I want to hear.

Kara Elmore said...

Reading everyone's comments are like two steps forward - and then a step back. So sad that the negative comments are just from people who don't understand and are angry.

I, too, was one of those people that prayed for you when I knew the post was going to be written. I am a proud member of the LDS church and feel sad for those who think we are a hateful bunch. We are simply trying to protect what God has created. And trying to protect our families - the most important thing. And if that means standing up to those who will burn us ... then so be it.

I want you to know that the words you wrote not only were BEAUTIFUL and INSPIRED and very well thought out - they helped me in other ways. So thank you for listening to the Spirit and writing something so very profound and strong and heartfelt and lovely.

And I'm so sorry for the words that are on here from those who carry anger on their sleeve. I pray that you will not worry yourself with them - as they are certainly from the adversary.

Anonymous said...

Wonderfully said Tharker!!! Thank you for expressing!

Emily said...

To all autonomous that leave hateful comments:

All of you seem to be a little hypocritical. This whole debate is about accepting one group that is different and yet you all seem to cry that we accept you or this group while not accepting that CJane or Mormons in general. Really really really hypocritical.

It seems that if you want us to accept you you could learn to do the same don't you think?

Jen said...

Brooke said,

"As for the people who say they're confused about your answer...they just want you to give a simple answer to a very complicated issue and shame on them."

There are complicated issues out there, but this should not be one of them.

URFAVE5 said...

I just love you! You are just awesome! I sure wouldn't have wanted to answer this question. You did amazingly. You go girl!

Oh and don't sell everything and move to Idaho, at least not yet. I'd be so so sad, who would I anxiously get up and read every morning?

Jen said...

P.S. I really did like this post (better than any in a while). And even when I don't agree, I always come back because people can respectfully disagree.

Linda said...

I have been thinking about this a lot since this subject has been brought up on this blog. I am LDS, I don't have any gay friends or relatives. I felt before like I would be able to love anyone who I knew who was gay, but then, I live such a sheltered life, I might not be able to hide my shock if someone told me. But thanks to some of the (kind) comments, I think I would be able to accept this better now if one of my children came to me with the statement that they were gay. I think I am better able to just give my child pure love and tell them they are ok just the way they are.

Anonymous said...

Most of the LDS commenters on here would NEVER bully anyone about being gay. But why are there so many pro gay commenters who are bullying cjane and spewing hateful things about her?

AJ said...

I'm sorry. Neither this post nor the previous post is a response to the question asked. I love CJane. I think she's a gifted writer, a wonderful mother and wife, a faithful member of the LDS Church, an all-around amazing human being.

But she didn't answer the question. This was a delicate dance AROUND the subject, not an opinion of it. This is the type of response one would expect from a politician seeking a second term. Don't offend anyone in the audience. Misdirect. Scoot the danger. Play it safe. Remain ambiguous. Don't take a stand.

And she did it brilliantly. Just read the comments. Advocates of both sides of the issue are saying they agree with her.

I honestly don't understand all the comments about CJane's courage. I agree that it is incredibly courageous for her to post her testimony of Christ and her statements of faith. That takes courage, yes. And it's most admirable. But I don't see courage demonstrated regarding this issue. There was no statement made.

And then, to see the comments and NOT address all the people who said exactly what I'm saying and requesting clarification and then NOT to give that clarification in the next post is further evidence that this is an attempt not to offend.

In CJane's defense, this was never going to be an easy thing to address. It's a polarizing issue. To make an unquestionable statement would have alienated a large part of her audience, minimized her readership, and damaged her income. Her response therefore was masterful.

But frankly, I would much rather have preferred CJane not broached the subject at all than to give a non-response and certify that it is one.

amy said...

I'm proud of you Courtney and your words. While I'm pretty sure at the end of the day we come out on opposite sides of the argument--I know that the discussion is one of kindness, respect and compassion. I am always open to that kind of journey. Thanks for letting me come along.

Tina said...

CJane, I have never sat and read others comments on your posts, but when I saw all the questions you raised about the possible arguments you may face after your "big" post, I read some of the comments from your last two posts. There are some mean people. You make me think, and I respect your thoughts and find you to be so brave. Keep Blogging CJane!

*** said...

Beautiful follow up. Thanks!

kara lynn said...

ok all i'm going to say is you are awesome cjane. you and chup. pretty awesome.

Anonymous said...

are you conflicted because your brother Topher is gay?

McRachie said...

I enjoyed these last two posts, for anyone with unanswered questions, here is the most recent press release from the church on this subject:

I think it is very well said.

Jen Burns said...

I doubt you read all these comments. In fact I hope you don't, because many are down right hateful and of no merit. I am a Christian and share many of the same moral convictions that many mormons do. Your post led me to believe that you believe that Heavenly Father may "change His mind" on the aspects of homosexuality as He did for the LDS church on aspects of race and marriage for example. I believe in our perfect God. One who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I do not believe any of His revelation contradicts previous revelation and that the new testament and first coming of God the Son was the fulfillment of the "law" or "old testament" and we now live under the blessing of "grace" which allows us "the church" or "believers" the greatest gift of all, salvation - through grace which is a gift from God. I do not believe God changes His mind on moral standards for His people. Religion gets in the way of people "working out their own salvation" through their own personal relationship with our Lord Jesus. What do you think? I totally understand if you don't want to answer - I do admire you tackling this "homosexuality" issue in any form. You don't owe the blog world anything.

Cody and Kylie said...

The nature of life is, everyone has an opinion and not everyone will agree with one another. I accept that I will not change anyone's mind, nor will they be likely to change mine.

I respect you for responding. You are a great example of a loving member of the church. :) I hope I can continue to be a better example, like yourself. Some may agree with your beliefs, some will disagree, but everyone should respect that this is how you feel, personally.

I will continue to love and respect those around me regardless of their opinion or orientation, but maintain the right to agree or disagree like everyone else. Is that not fair?

Nice job Kendricks!

Kacie said...

i loved this! it was wonderfully written and delightfully read.
haters gonna hate..
ballers gonna ball..

and you cjane, are a baller. :)

Ashley said...

I love that you called your blog a mating call. My husband does not often read my blog, but last year when he went away for three weeks I packaged some of my favorite posts in decorative envelopes—one for each day. Recently when we moved from the Midwest to Alaska, we were forced to purge any and all unnecessary items. That collection of posts, accompanied with love notes and explanations of how and what inspired them, was not going to be purged. They may be one of his favorite gifts ever.

And for the record, I loved your “response” post yesterday. I don’t completely agree with you on all of it, and it doesn’t even matter. I love the way you explain your thoughts, and I can identify with laboring over something that you don’t like you fully understand.

Maria said...

It comes to me when reading this blog that you won't quit being who you are for the sake of anyone else. I appreciate that you leave gray areas that an individual can wander in and come to personal conclusions in. I feel like we live in a sound byte culture and we want people we admire to give us conclusive answers so we don't have to wrestle with our own thoughts.

But you, you give parables instead of sermons.

I'm not a Mormon. I'm as Protestant as you are Mormon. It's who I am, but I am thankful for your wisdom and insight and am glad that you are still a public blogger!

Creole Wisdom said...

I don't think you really addressed this, but like I said yesterday in my comment (not sure if you read it or not!) how can you really? This is another reason why the LDS church really frustrates me. I wish its own members who rightfully love their faith could truly be critical of aspects they are uncomfortable about.

I'm reading between the lines here, but my guess is that you aren't happy with the church's stance on homosexuality and gay marriage, maybe even prop 8. And that would make sense. I think you're pretty accepting of others.

But- I know why you can't take a stand on it: this blog is your livelihood (which is okay) and you're a prominent member of the LDS church. When I say prominent I mean prominent. That's just the way it is, you guys are a bit like Mormon royalty.

Here's what I'd love to see- I'd love to see you stand up and really be strong about what you believe. Because I think a person like you, with your influence could get some balls rolling and encourage some change in Salt Lake.

A church is only as strong as its members. When people are unhappy with something within their faith, do something about it. I'm not saying one person can do it, but I'd like to see more Mormons stand up to certain aspects of their faith and say, "this isn't Christ like and we refuse."

I'm probably living in a fantasy world, but that's my hope!

At the end of the day, I think you are a great person and I'll still read your blog!

Caroline of Salsa Pie said...

I think that Maggie May put it perfectly.

I think you did a great job with your response. And I'd like to think that even when we (all of us here in the blogosphere) do disagree on something that we can still enjoy each other's company ("virtually" speaking, of course).

This remains one of my favorite blogs. Period.


Anonymous said...


You act as if YOU HAD to write that post. It would have sufficed to just respond privately back to the sender and be done with it. Right?

It is unbecoming that you clearly think that your opinion matters...I hope you don't take that the wrong way, but really, who the hell cares? Blogs are funny like that...really, who cares? I liken these stupid blogs to celebrity magazines.

Mrs.Dr.Shot said...

Yes, you did good.
yes, you are a writer.
yes, you answered the question (in YOUR way. She did ask YOU anyhow.)
Yes, you look like a lioness.

Greg and Michelle said...

I just love you! I don't even know you and I love you. Your blog is so inspiring! I am LDS as well, and have been following your thoughts in regards to this topic and how you would respond because if I were ever asked about it, I wouldn't know what to say. You have a way with words, and I truly believe it is a gift from God!
Thank you for your faith!

Mrs. Alston said...

You wrote a lovely post, but if people are looking for a more 'hit on the head' approach to President Packers talk, there is a blog post i stumbled upon by a Gay Mormon man... It is well written and def. worth a read. (dont worry, he said reposting things back to him was fine!)

redhairedash said...

i like this post. i like almost all of your posts, and i'll tell you why. you are honest and straightforward with what you believe without being judgemental or critical of others. your open and welcoming heart shows through no matter the subject. i love your blog (and steph's too) and although i am not mormon, i admire your outlook, your choice of words, your consideration and kindness when so many would choose another way. yay for you corney!!!
and if you move to idaho, please keep writing!

Catherine Agnes said...

I liked your post yesterday. Not knowing the answers may be the most honest reaction of all.

Fresh Hell, Texas said...

Tharker, Thank you!

Lynne, You wrote that you are a

"49" year old heterosexual member of the LDS Church I am expected to live a moral, chaste life. Is it hard - duh! But why should it be different for a homosexual?"

It shouldn't be different. And it would not be different if gays and lesbians were allowed to marry.

However, as it stands gays and lesbians are not permitted to marry so they are automatically denied the things we all brought up to value and cherish.

You are not asked to never act on your sexual desires, you are not asked to forsake a life partner, you are not asked to give up on your dreams of being a parent. And if I understand this correctly, and I may not, you are not being asked to give up on sharing in the highest blessings in the next life.

It's up to the LDS Church to decide if they want to continue to ask that of their members but it should not be the place of civil government to make that decision for private citizens.

My son just began college. He hopes someday to marry the man of his dreams and to be a father, in that order. He's not asking for society to "ok" adultery or whatnot, he's asking that his right to marry his one, unrelated, umarried to another, of legal age partner, and his privacy to conduct his marriage how he wishes, be respected as it is for heterosexuals. That's all.

Well, then there is job protection and so on but let's stick to gay marriage for today!

Christa said...

I am so sick of people "accusing" bloggers of making money from their blogs. I think its awesome. I hope you make tons of money from your blog. And I am pretty sure that it is the aspiration of almost every writer to be paid to write. Its kind of the whole point. I wonder if The Times got letters to the editor complaining that Dickens was paid by the word or that his stories were published in a serial manner to encourage people to keep buying the paper? Give me a break! Go capitalism!

Dana at StrawberryTart! said...

I have read the blogs and the comments and I have no big response other then I am not 100% agreement with what my religion says on the issue because I normally think with my heart on the subject.

Anyway - not commenting to go into that. I just wanted to say - I blog for my future husband as well. I make him read everything and hope I impress big time.

You did the right thing - the way you is your blog, right? Oh...and I love your self potrait. Much Love to you Courtney!

bjahlstrom said...

I laughed my head off with the short flurry of rebuttals. It is such a pleasure to read your stuff, cjane! I sincerely enjoy the serious as well as the silly, sarcastic, and witty. Definitely the witty.

Stephanie said...

I guess I am the lone atheist reader of your blog, so I am feeling a bit out of place as I make this comment. I just love your blog. I read the religious parts but mostly filter through the regurgitation to find and connect to your true voice. I think you have a 100% good heart and take care and thought in how you live your life, or at least always intend to. I don't really care what your opinion on homosexuality is as you are just one person, as am I, but what I do appreciate is that you at least appear to have taken some time to consider it and made an attempt to be humble in presenting it. I give you kuddos for that.

Fresh Hell, Texas said...

Linda, I just read your comment and am moved to tears. Your children are lucky to have such a mother.

Barb @ getupandplay said...

Thanks for sharing your process of writing that post. I, for one, could definitely see the hours of work and thought and prayer that went into it. I hope you know that many, many people read it and took it for what it was and moved on with their day without leaving a comment. I hope that you remember that amidst the trolls :).

Rose Graves said...

And not JUST a writer, lol, a PROFESSIONAL WRITER!!! Since when is there anything wrong with that, lol! ;D

Andrea said...

Seriously the Anonymous comments are so cowardly. Really, grow-up.

I don't agree with Cjanes post But at least she has the courage to say it under her own name and not hide behind an anonymous post.

Becki said...

If I did not want to see self portraits and read (occasionally) self-indulgent material, Courtney, I would go somewhere else.
I am PROUD to pay your bills.
And here's what else.
I mean, I love you. Really. But who cares how you feel about gay marriage/straight marriage/giraffe marriage? It wouldn't change how I feel about your blog. I like your blog, I like "you" (or at least the version of you that you put on your blog), and in my real life, I have lots of friends of varying opinions. And we all get along just fine.
Ugh, the interwebs.
(You are awesome.)

Anonymous said...

I am an active member of the Mormon church and my sister is Lesbian. I just want to say that this issue is very complicated. It is NOT cut and dry. I agree whole heartedly with the things that President Packer said as well as the churches stance on this issue. However, I see the struggle that she goes through, I love her, and it is hard for me to see the judgement of others. I do not judge her. I am not the judge. I love her and I will always welcome her with open arms. I do not agree with her lifestyle and I would not choose it for myself, but I will not say that I know what will happen to her on the day of judgement. The Lord knows her heart and he knows her suffering. The only person I need to worry about is myself. I will teach my children that it is God's will for them to marry between man and woman and that any other way is not of God. However, my children will know that those who do choose otherwise are good people and have good things to offer. They will not be taught to judge. I only pray that they will choose God's plan of happiness.

Anonymous said...

CJane, I love your writing!! I hope you DO BECOME RICH from writing! If JK Rowling can so can you!!
I just have to say that I have a great respect for people in general because we are ALL GOD's Children! But what I think is being missed in this great debate (that will never end in this life time) is that there are people EVERYDAY that take their own life because they can not over come in their own minds the pain they are feeling.
I have had four people I have been close to as well as many others that I have know that have taken their own life. Each one suffered from heartache and pain and sadly thought that was the only way to escape. My heart bleeds for those that are feeling pushed aside because of the way they feel sexually, but it should not define WHO they are. If we use suicide as a tool to measure which laws we choose to change then you must make it illegal for a spouse to cheat, for that is why my dear friend chose to end her life, her husband cheated on her. You must make it a law not to lose your job. My other friend lost his job and could not handle it so he took his and his wife's life. The list goes on and on, depression, illness, bullying.... It is time to take back the SANCTITY of human life and embrace each other as a true child of God! Once we do this we will be able to handle our differences with kindness, grace and love and not with lawyers, Judges and ballot boxes.

Kimberly said...

I know it would be as hard for you to move to Idaho as it would for me to move to Provo. But we would love you here. Please bring Kentuck with you while you are at it!!

Becca said...

nope, Stephanie, you have atheist company in me (and I agree with your assessment on Cjane)

Eva said...

Have I misread the post in question?

In my interpretation, CJane is saying: 'I cannot say so openly right now, because it would go against the official stance of my denomination, but I believe that homosexual couples should (and will) have the right to marry just like anybody else'.

Anonymous said...

The talk was available to read online BEFORE the conference (as they always are). What changed was what was said the day of - not what was put online.

Amy said...

So...just a response, or a question, to the anonymous (or one of them.) Do you have a job that you enjoy? Do you always do it for the money? Do you happen to occasionally stay dedicated because the money is needed? Would you openly explain to others that you do your job "for the money"? I hope not.

It's not *that* simple.

Kat said...

Just a couple of important points I would like to make:

-I loved the last paragraph of your last post. I will probably get a tattoo of it. Well, probably not... but I liked the whole "never be surprised" thing.

-I claim postpartum... although I've never had a child.

-All these comments about Topher reminds me to ask, could you share him as a brother... because he seems pretty fun.

-Pictures of that aerodynamic chair? Sounds rad.

Anonymous said...

""I hope you never sell out, because you are worthy to be an awesome sweet Princess of the Almighty Heavenly Father""

UGG, can I just say blahhhhhhhhhhh! You guys stroke you own egos more than my dog licks his huevos.


Anonymous said...

"" have both spoken warnings on public forums such as this blog.""

Too late for that. The awakening and humanization has began I'm sure.

Briana said...

I agree with what Nicole and Butternutsage said:

First, I didn't comment on either of the last two posts, but I have been reading them, thinking about them, discussing them with my husband, reading comments until late hours of the morning and pondering, etc. I guess I haven't felt like I had any coherent thoughts to put into a comment. But I appreciated the posts - beautifully written as always! And they make me think.

And second: I also don't feel eloquent enough to write a comment on your AWESOME blog about 95% of the time. :)

So, with that said... Anyways, I like this post, too! Thanks for sharing. I'm glad it worked out for you to write the post and you didn't have to shut everything down and move to Idaho. :) I would be sad forever - this is my favorite blog. I love reading your writing and your thoughts. I really think you should publish a book of your posts. It would be on my coffee table! Maybe like a custom thing where readers could pick and choose their favorite posts to be included. See, I have it all planned out. ;)

Sorry about all the haters. I think most of us get that you are honest, caring, thoughtful, genuine and we appreciate what you share.

Love you CJane!

Anonymous said...


I have an idea. Since your blog reaches so many, let those of us who have loved ones who are gay share our stories with all of you.
Let us humanize our loved ones. Let us take your readers out from behind the bubble of those 4 walls and the pulpit.

Briana said...

oh yeah, and i forgot - i laughed really hard at the blog being a public mating call. :) hehe!

Anonymous said...

how is commenting as Anonymous any different than commenting as "Andrea", when there isn't a link to a personal blog or site? Just the word Andrea is equally anonymous.

Geraldine said...

C Jane, you're an amazing mother, wife and writer. Your posts are so amuzing and are my daily chuckle. Please don't ever stop! For me?

Geraldine from Dallas TX

courtneylove said...


CRW's Sister From Another Mister said...

Analogies are hard! And confusing! And I really wish you didn't make me think for myself!

Charlotte said...

On a almost completely different note:

About you being tempted to make the choice to become a public blogger . . .

I'm an accountant for a non-profit. Every year when I'm gearing up for our annual audit, I spend at least a week looking at everyone in my path thinking,

"This supermarket check-out person doesn't have to have people come in every year and look at his work."


"This dentist doesn't have to have people come in and try to find any mistakes that he's made."


"This policeman doesn't have to go through an annual audit."

And then I wonder why I made the occupational choices that I did.

. . . And then the audit starts, and it's not as bad as I feared, and it all works out, and I'm glad that I'm an accountant for a non-profit.

Nice to know you feel the same way sometimes.

(But my accounting does nothing to woo my hubby.)

Sid TSK said...

Gerald scares me. Looking into his eyes is like looking into the soul of a madman.

Andrea said...

Here's the difference Anonymous- There are several people posting anonymously with real opinions on the matter of homosexuality. They are dignified, well thought out comments that may or may not agree with Cjane. Totally ok.

And then there are the personal attacks against Cjane done anonymously that don't have a thing to do with the topic at hand. Cowardly trolls.

I fit into the first group. I just use my name since I don't have a blog.

It's not rocket science. Surely, you can see the difference.

Cathy said...

Don't tell Irving, but I'd like to take that Topher out to an all-chocolate brunch! Ack!! Sweat drops!!

Anonymous said...

Fresh Hell, Texas,
Yours is the voice we need to hear. What an awesome Mom and humanitarian you are!

None of my children are gay but I do know young people who are or may be. It's not my place to define them one way or another.

But it's a community of support, love and compassion that I would like to surround my family with. Clearly you're working hard for the same.

Thanks for making your thoughts known here.

Courtney, thank you for recognizing wonderful Moms like this one.

With great admiration,

Anonymous said...

Can people please stop saying "I don't agree with the lifestyle, but it's not for me to judge"?

Because saying you don't agree with it IS making a judgement - you have evaluated the situation, and you don't agree with it. That's judgement. Sorry.

Ali said...

Hi CJane,
I've been thinking about The Post (it has earned a proper noun status, don't you think?) since I read it yesterday.
When you announced its impending arrival I felt my stomach flip with anxiety for you for two reasons - first, empathy... I can't imagine the stress of reading those comments on the first two posts.
The second reason was personal - You have been tremendously inspirational to me as a mother, sister, daughter and child of God. I feel very similar to commenter Maggie May and I didn't want to read something that would radically change my perspective (yikes - the pressure you must feel reading stuff like that! I'm so glad I'm NOT a public blogger. :-)
I thought The Post was exquisite. It is such a divisive topic and people jump to their respective sides of the fence. Your words were refreshing and genuine and filled with hope.
Thank you!

Lindsey Buckingham said...

I'm always getting bumped!

AzĂșcar said...

Dear cjane,

How dare you earn a living for you family by writing things online and then making us read them! For rude!

Also, do you think Topher is fat or a holmoe? I mean homo? I feel like he'd be more insulted by saying he's fat (which is isn't, right?)

In any case, lay off the bananas, Topher!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous = Coward

Yes, including me.

Lolee said...

I know this comment will be mocked, even as I type it. I don't care.

To those people who are making fun or criticizing Cjane and other commenters.

Do you mock and make fun of everyone that doesnt agree with you?

I wonder if that's how it started for Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson (the boys who murdered Matthew Shepard). Did they mock and make fun of him? Then take it to the next level?

On the 12 year anniversary (10/12/98) of his death, shouldn't we all be trying to be more tolerant of our differences?

p.s.- Don't bother to respond. I bet it will sound something like this.." I am so tolerant! I let everyone believe and exist as they want, it's those brainwashed bigots, who dont think, act, and believe like me. They are so hateful, evil and wrong.

Amelia Merritt said...

I believe strongly that we see the world not for what it is, but for what we are. If you are a humble and teachable person who is open to what this author is trying to say it will come to you and you will understand. (I spent a LOT of years not humble and teachable and therefore learning nothing, so I know what I'm talking about.) I am lucky enough to know this author in real life and she is a beautiful, cheerful and optimistic person, in my opinion. I believe this post reflects that optimism, that one day with faith, things may change. But until then in our house we pray for those we love that struggle in all the ways that they feel in any way burdened or in pain and we await the words of our Prophet on the matter.

Anonymous said...

Amelia, Thanks for your wise words. I agree! ~LS

Anna said...

Congratulations on your new profession!

thorney said...

I loved your voice that you shared yesterday. It was you, and I question anyone to belittle you overyour own beliefs and feelings--you are exactly who you claim to be and there is no need to question. I love knowing you, evenif it is only online (although one of these days I will make it to Utah:)

La Yen said...

Topher can't be a homo--he is too busy directing plays and chaperoning young children around foreign countries, like Singapore and Thailand. And prancing.

La Yen said...

Oops--I meant "holmoe." I have no idea what Topher prefers to do in bed with his wife.

The Ghost of Tom said...

Wouldn't it be chilly with no skin on?

Joseph Smith said...

Best practical joke ever!!!

Martha said...

La Yen, I laughed when I read your comment, Topher was my first guess also! But you crossed a line with the children and Thailand comment even if it was a joke, some may not get it.

La Yen said...

Oh, Martha, isn't that what lines are for? Crossing? Plus, everyone knows he doesn't go to Eurasia. He goes to Myasia.

Kurt Cobain said...

Courtney?? was that you?

Garfield said...

Dammit, when is Cjane going to speak out about Feline Aids?

Martha said...

@La Yen: Stop it, you crack me up.

Lorie said...

Did you see that the church's latest public statement:

You might like reading it.

Helen said...

I was thinking of emailing you that night, but all I was going to say was how I would respond, which would've been really legalist in a Dallin-Oaks way (his style but probably not his opinion), and I'm glad I didn't because what you wrote was so much better.

vanessa said...

Feline Aids
a Fat Topher??

Goodness me lets all just have oreo truffles. el

Middle-aged Diva said...

This is such an amazing discussion. I thought your post was excellent and kudos for you leaving even the haters on. The discussion is fulsome, that's for sure. Nice work, CJ. Nice work.

Angie said...

I loved yesterday's post. Actually I love most of your posts, but I wish I had written that one. It was a beautiful, nuanced look at a complicated issue. Your metaphors and images will be with me for a long time.

Anonymous said...

I think your pretty great but you kinda brought that junk on yourself. You didn't have to answer or post about it. You don't deserve to be called awful names or to be picked on but that was not a peaceful topic. It caused so much contention I was really disappointed.
You're at your best when your talking about your family or telling stories about picking up your bonus frozen turkey not broaching the hard hitting news.
Enough woman.

Anonymous said...

Hi CJane! I don't know you or your family, but listen - you have a right to your personal beliefs. I read your blog because your writing is clever and touching. And your kids are super-cute. Honestly? I am not swayed or offended by any personal religious beliefs you have. No matter what, you will not lose this reader. I enjoy reading about a woman going through her life. I am not here to cricize or condemn or judge. Please do not feel threatened or nervous, although I understand. I would not want to put my personal beliefs oa public domain either. You don't have to if you don't want to. Big hug to you and your family! Best, K.

Anonymous said...

I'm conflicted.
Dabnambit I really like Mindy's song Hourglass, I mean I really like it. The only problem is I don't want one sliver of a penny piece of my money to go to tithing so I won't buy it.

Jalene said...

i liked the post too. i thought it was perfect.

thanks for sharing.

you are my fav!

Anonymous said...

I am LDS and very grateful to be so. I LOVE my religion and the freedoms it provides me. I am so blessed beyond blessed and I am grateful.

I agree with President Packer's statement. I agree with it just as much as I agree with Heterosexual people not being promiscuous.

I can understand how parents/family members/close friends can feel conflicted. I have a family member who lives a life that is so different than the life I have chosen to live. She has had many different male sex partners. I don't agree with her LIFESTYLE. I worry about her because her lifestyle is scary. I wonder if this is how other people feel when they have a family member who is GLBT?

And why is your family history in the Church considered to be such that people would call it Mormon Royalty?

Tom Green said...

Meet me at the Center Street Albertsons...I've got a proposition for you!

Caleb said...

Very thorough explanation of "church position" on same-sex attraction and marriage, or rather it's current position. A fabulous and edifying interview with Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman on the subject.

As for my opinion, as the husband of one of your readers, I would be open to future clarification of God's will on the issue, no matter the substance of the revelation. I feel my faith in the Lord's prophet trumps my personal inclination on the matter or the popular opinion of society. I also believe that those who declare that there is no such thing as same-sex attraction are fooling themselves and flattering their own bigotry. We all face temptation some face profoundly addictive personalities, others sever mental disorders, and others physical handicaps; however, none of these alter the standards given to us by our Heavenly Father only revelation can do so.

On a related note, for those whose faith struggles with the existence of injustice and suffering. God never promised fairness or equality in this life. Indeed, if it were so what would there be to aspire to, where would wisdom be gained, and wouldn't there be just a little to much heaven on earth?

Rachael (Tales from the Village) said...

Rawwwrr. Yes, you do.

Just caught up on the last few posts. Beautifully written, by a beautiful writer.

Lyndsay said...

Rachel in Vancouver, I really love your comment.

And Courtney, I think you were brave to write such a personal, expeditious response.

To expect Courtney to provide a definitive answer on this sensitive topic, or criticize her when she doesn't, is just silly. Everyone's views differ. Even among Mormons. And she expressed her feelings the best she could. With love.

I challenge anyone who is feeling critical to do the same. Write your view of the topic, on your blog, with compassion while withholding judgement. You can't deny that Courtney has approached this topic with civility, a clear head, and an honest heart. I respect her greatly for that.

Charlotte said...

Dear Cjane,

I did comment about your last post. But after reading today's I would like to change my opinion. I get it, really, today I totally get what you are saying. And I whole-heartedly agree.

& @ Fresh Hell, Texas - (& everyone else)

We do believe that anyone who lived according to God's commandments in this life, regardless of marital status, will be able to attain the highest level of happiness in the hear after. If a woman is never proposed to, she is asked to never act on her sexual desires. (Same goes for a man who never marries.) There are many single women (and some married too) who have had to give up on their dream of being a parent.

No one group has the market on pain or trials... that is one thing about this life, there is more than enough to go around. And it is impossible to quantify someone else's pain, to compare it to one's own. I sympathize with you, I truly do. There is another side, others also have incredibly personal reasons for feeling or believing the way they do. And unfortunately, in blog comments (esp. anon ones) there is no frame of reference for the words. I just wish everyone would take a step back and think.

Micheal Otterson, a spokesman for the Church said in a statement, "...the church considers any sexual activity outside of marriage as wrong, and it defines marriage as between a man and a woman.

"However, that should never, ever be used as justification for unkindness," he added. "Jesus Christ, whom we follow, was clear in his condemnation of sexual immorality, but never cruel. His interest was always to lift the individual, never to tear down.

"Further, while the church is strongly on the record as opposing same-sex marriage, it has openly supported other rights for gays and lesbians such as protections in housing or employment."

Otterson said the church shares common ground with gay-rights groups, saying that both have felt "the bitter sting of persecution and marginalization" over the years, adding that LDS members "should be especially sensitive to the vulnerable in society and be willing to speak out against bullying or intimidation whenever it occurs, including unkindness toward those who are attracted to others of the same sex."

The church understands others will disagree, but hopes disagreement will include an understanding of its position "and not on distortion or selective interpretation," Otterson said.

Charlotte said...
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Charlotte said...
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Charlotte said...
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Anonymous said...

Anonymous - you love the freedoms your religion gives you? Think of the freedoms your religion is trying to take away from others.

Anyone who is truly against same-sex marriage is living in a privileged bubble.

My B.O.M. Blog: Reflections on Lessons said...

I'd really like to know what your parents think.

Make Do and Mend said...

Thank you for writing what you did. Today and yesterday, and the day before that, and . . .

Although no longer a member of the LDS church, I still hold deep feelings for the way I was raised. And I can get defensive when folks criticize. It is a tough spot.

You were in a tough spot, but you did very well. It was not an easy topic. I imagine you find yourself writing because, maybe like me, you feel you just can't stop the flow of words. I hope you don't let hard topics get in your way of that.

The thing that keeps me sane about all the world's ills, particularly topics like the one you addressed, is that I'm glad that Heavenly Father is in charge. It is not for me to decide. It is not for me to pass judgement. I've seen too much hurt caused by that. I have faith that it is not up to me to adjudicate. It is only up to me to love.

Lynne said...

Thank you Charlotte - you've explained how I feel perfectly!

Anonymous said...

barf. the whole thing. your opinion. the comments. everything. i have a great idea...everyone get a life! including me! i will NOT be reading this blog. ever. again.

Angeerah said...

Hey, everyone has a reason for blogging and that is totally cool. I have no dispute with that. My small qualm is with the somewhat flippant tone of this post regarding a very important and serious issue.

I suggest those of you who love photographs of and stories about weddings, you check out this lovely blog:

It includes ALL types of weddings and really demonstrates that all people deserve to experience love and commitment equally.


Anonymous said...

Why do people make comments to CJane regarding NieNie's blog? This is CJanes blog, not Nie's. Nie has her comments removed for a reason. It's really odd that people will post a comment for a completely different author to this blog.

Anonymous said...


I think that you mean well, but the are a number of issues with what you are saying. What about the stigma of being a gay person? What about growing up thinking that there is something wrong with you? Do you think that is just a minor inconvenience for people to tolerate?

The church will speak out against bullying, but it will continue to say that homosexuality is an abomination. That sounds ok to you? You don't find any irony in that statement?

You say "No one group has the market on pain or trials.... " That is true. However, do you think that the purpose of religion is to create trials for people? Is that your god's job - to make life harder? Isn't there enough struggle in the world? Why can't you see that this discrimination is an artificial problem? We can stop worrying about who people love today. We don't have to bother them, discriminate against them or work to prevent them from finding happiness. We can just live our lives and maybe do some good in the world. Do you think that god spends more time worrying about sexuality than something like genocide? It is starting to sound that way.

Also, since when can't woman get married unless a man proposes? Really?

I ask you and everyone else who opposes gay marriage to please think about your reasons. Is it really enough to say that an old text says that it is wrong. Is that enough for your heart? Don't forget that the bible also asks us to stone a woman to death if she is found to not be a virgin on her wedding night. (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

Anonymous said...

The church released a public statement. I think you didn't need to put yourself through that. If you wanted to write about it that is one thing, but it sounds like you were dreading it not knowing what to say. It was beautifully written, and I have to say the drama kept me coming back for more :)

You look great by the way! I am not going to read through 169 comments, but it someone says your fat I just thought I would add that in!

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
Why do people make comments to CJane regarding NieNie's blog? This is CJanes blog, not Nie's. Nie has her comments removed for a reason. It's really odd that people will post a comment for a completely different author to this blog."

Most people found this blog thru Nie's blog when Courtney was updating it so it's not "odd" for people to comment here for her. It might be useless, annoying, irrelevant, a waste of time... lots of things, but certainly not odd. It's not like someone is posting a comment to dooce on here! And it wouldn't be a stretch to think that nie reads her sister's blog and the comments.

Carolyn said...

I don't think you should move to Idaho, I think you should move here to Boston - somewhere completely out of your comfort zone! I bet you'd love it after the initial culture shock!

Heather said...

I hesitate to write this because I find it weird and slightly creepy when people constantly comment on blogs with sentiments like, "I love you!" "You're wonderful," blah blah blah ad nauseam. It starts to feel insincere, especially because not many of us ACTUALLY know you (although many think they do).

With that disclaimer (and let me add an additional one here - this sort of comment is not typical of me AT ALL), let me just say that I think you are great. It is clear to me that all of the haters just don't really "get" you. It's obvious that you're not really self-absorbed; it's your humor! (E.g., the title of this post is hilarious.) I don't read the comments often, but when I do I'm often in awe at how clueless some people seem to be in understanding your writing and humor, and, when that is the case, why they continue to read something that upsets them so. I don't think I could handle all the flack you take, but I'm glad you do. And I'm glad you didn't quit your blog and move to Idaho.


Keep doing what you're doing, paying no heed to the punks. I, for one, genuinely think if I knew you in real life we would be good friends. (Said in a non-creepy, non-stalkerish way.)

(Oh, and here is one more parenthetical statement, because apparently I have a problem.)

Anonymous said...

God hath not promised skies always blue, flower-strewn pathways all our lives through. God hath not promised sun without rain, joy without sorrow, peace without pain.

But God hath promised strength for the day, rest for the labor, light for the way. Grace for the trials, help from above. Unfailing sympathy, undying love...

My B.O.M. Blog: Reflections on Lessons said...


Anonymous said...

Annon - thanks for posting this, i hadn't heard it before. i searched the words and found the whole song online! :) ~LS

God hath not promised skies always blue, flower-strewn pathways all our lives through. God hath not promised sun without rain, joy without sorrow, peace without pain.

But God hath promised strength for the day, rest for the labor, light for the way. Grace for the trials, help from above. Unfailing sympathy, undying love...

Emily said...

cjane, i love your blog.

i am not mormon but, i am very familiar with the mormon church and i read the speech mr. packer gave. i have my opinions about it that differ greatly from what mr. packer relayed about his own (or the church's) but, they don't matter because i feel very strongly that his speech and that conference in general serves a certain purpose for a certain group of people. he was speaking to the members of the church. not to the rest of us. i am unable to understand why anyone outside of that group of people cares one iota about what he had to say? i also wonder why those who disagree with anything you have to say continue to read this blog and then take the time out of their important lives to comment and say hurtful things? are they really above making money? do they really care if you make a living writing what you believe to people who want to read it? if they're so passionate about their opposing views, they should spend their time advocating in a positive way.

i just don't understand. it frustrates me. if you're gay, great. if you're mormon, great. black, white, indifferent, great. it is unrealistic to expect the world to be filled with people who are all the same in every way.

why can't we just live and let live?

and. continue to take photos and have photos taken because i like seeing them.


emily from herriman, utah.

The Girl Who said...

Another girl from Provo responds:

Geo said...

Sounds like you anticipated quite a lot of what's coming at you now. I hope, then, that you were prepared with a six-pack of Pepto-Bismol.

So glad you're doing what you can do, you two. I think you're doing it well, and I'm proud to know you.

It's always nice to have Idaho up your sleeve, but I hope you don't pull the plug. Maybe one day it'll be right, but for now, go team. Keep on writing and loving.

Anonymous said...

I am leaving your blog not because of your opinion on homosexuality. I believe you are very torn on your feelings and that is your struggle, not ours. I don't think you commented to drum up business for yourself. I am leaving because the support that you get from your readers has an ulterior motive. They leave sugary comments, you read them, feed the hole you have in your soul that tells you to CARE about what people think about your personal and private feelings or dilemmas, they promote their own blogs by getting their blog name in print. They feed the delusion that you are a regular, run of the mill mom with your side kick Chup lazing around with you, all the while you complain about the challenges you face as a mom, and it continues this unhealthy circle of dillusion. There will be those that feel this comment is unwarranted. Isn't this what you love? People's comments, both good and bad. Attention. Isn't it why blogs exist? You are an amazing writer. You clearly love your husband and kids. You may also need a little therapy to treat your need for attention, approval, narcissism, etc. I am not sure I will be able to stop reading. It is a little like a car crash, you want to look away but you just can't...

Angeerah said...

I will second? reading another response to this question. Very thoughtful post over here:

Anonymous said...

I just think...that when you really love another persons soul, and you really believe something you think might affect their salvation, you don't encourage them to live in a way contrary to what that is.

I have heard many comment that homosexuality is not addressed in the scriptures. BUT, it IS addressed that a man would marry a woman and not any other way.

Yes, Jesus did judge. When the woman was taken in adultery he simply told her to go and sin no more. She may have had a GREAT desire to be with another man, and that may have made HER very happy, but it was clear, that was not in harmony with the plan of God, so Jesus encouraged her to not act on her feelings but rather to get right with God.

I think that when we separate ourselves from what feels good and what "makes us happy" we are on a slippery slop. I am very happy that I'm not gay, but there are other moral struggles I face everyday. In the end, I just want to be right with God. Where do we draw the line then? Can grown men marry young children? Can people marry animals? Can a man or woman marry as many people as they like because it makes them "happy"?

For me, happiness comes from doing the things God speaks to me to do... and those things don't always seem to jive with what my human nature wants to do. One thing I know, I have never been unhappy when I take the way my heavenly Father chooses over my own and I think that its sad when someone is trying to encourage another to ere on the safe side because they love their soul and nothing more. NO I AM NOT MORMAN.

iamwoman said...

I have never commented here, although I happily admit I read daily. However, these past 2 posts have left me wanting...not because of the content (which I believe whole-heartedly is good), but because of the aching comments. There are always so I rarely ever read them. But oddly I have sat and I have read and I have applauded and I have cringed.

I had no idea I could experience so many emotions in one sitting.

CJane, I don't believe in tearing you down. Even if I don't agree. Even if I don't condone. Even if I don't believe as you believe (which happens to not be this case because I DO believe as you believe).

Instead, I believe that your intent is good and sincere. I believe you motive is to express yourself in a way that only you can express. I believe that you have your right to free speech, as well as your right to feel and act upon promptings.

You live life and you write. That is who you are (and of course so much more.)

And for the lucky ones who truly SEE that, we are better people for reading.

Amanda Bland said...

New to your blog--and love the honesty in your writing. Looking forward to reading more and more of your brain. :)

Tabitha from Cali said...

CJane, I love you and I love your blog. And I am about as far removed from you on the moral scale that one could be - I'm an Atheist who makes adult movies for a living. Would you approve of what I do - absolutely not. But I bet if you did know me and I was in trouble you would lend a hand if you were able. And that's really what it all comes down to in the end. Call it tolerance, call it acceptance, whatever. You love people, and love to be loved in return and that's a beautiful thing. And that's why I read your blog. Oh and if you make a ton of money off of it and get to stay home and raise your babies then I think that's beautiful too! That's what I'm trying to do to - just in a rather less pious way :-)

Anonymous said...

I'm a relatively new reader and I truly enjoy your posts. I find them funny, intersting and easy to read. Mostly though, I like the honesty and pride in your voice. Even though I am not religious, I even enjoy hearing about others' beliefs. Those beliefs that make us all unique and interesting. As such, I was really looking forward to an answer to the question about gays. I have to admit, I felt like I was left hanging at the end of the post. I'm holding out hope for a Part B with a more concrete stance.

Steph said...

Cjane you must be mentally exhausted haha. Hope you're taking this day to relax and nibble Ever's cheeks.

Charlotte said...

in response to anon;

I think there are all kinds of stigmas attached to people that cause them pain.
What about the stigma of physical deformities?
What about the stigma that someone who is raped or sexually abused feels?
What about the stigma against fat people? (for the record, cjane is NOT included in that category)
What about the stigma people feel when they lose a child?
What of the stigma attached to children with autism, or other mental issues?
What about the stigma people who are depressed feel?

Everyone in this life will experience hurt, pain and struggles. No one is exempt from that. I do not believe that God in anyway shape of form is trying to make our life harder. Because I believe in God I also don't get a free pass from any of it. What I do get is a resource, a spiritual companion in my journey, a source of strength, guidance and comfort.

I do feel like it is my responsibility to support God in the same way that He supports me. I try to be a witness for Him, a follower of Him. For me, that is the path that I have chosen.

Anonymous said...


Are you suggesting that any of the other stigmas that you list is ok? Is it ok to discriminate against people with physical deformities? People who have been raped? Don't we work to erase these stigmas?

How does the existence of discrimination against a variety of other groups make deliberate discrimination against gay people ok? Are you trying to prove your point or mine?

Shannon said...

Um, I LOVED your response first of all!!! I thought it was perfect & respectful! But really PERFECT! And also, yes please, move to Idaho! Puh-lease! I'm only slightly biased since I only moved here 5 years ago from California the hubs is from here), but still I consider myself an expert on who should move here & you are definitely top on the list. You're awesome & that's all.

Katie Price said...

I have to say I love what Tabitha from Cali just said.

Anonymous said...

Great job, Courtney, on completely avoiding answering the question. I don't think you even used the word "gay" in your response. I guess Blogher doesn't look too kindly on homophobes? Gotta pay the bills.

And why the heck would you stop breastfeeding when it was working well for you? Let me want to conceive again.

Fresh Hell, Texas said...

Emily wrote, "he was speaking to the members of the church. not to the rest of us. i am unable to understand why anyone outside of that group of people cares one iota about what he had to say?"

Oh, dear. I'm afraid my friend the dead horse is about to tell me to stop beating him but I did want to respond to this.

We care what he says because he influences millions of people who then influence the laws of this country. If a religious leader wants to not marry certain people or not allow them communion or not allow whatever it is that is a holy rite in their tradition, then that is solely the concern of that religious tradition.

But when that leader, and that religious tradition, sink millions of dollars and thousands of hours into trying to get civil law to match their religious beliefs, then that becomes my concern.

Not only when I disagree with that religious tradition but whenever the majority is the trying to exclude a minority from rights the majority already enjoys. That is not the America I want to live in or pass onto my child.

Fresh Hell, Texas said...

One of the Anons wrote, "Where do we draw the line then? Can grown men marry young children? Can people marry animals? Can a man or woman marry as many people as they like because it makes them "happy"?"

I had to put myself in time out before replying to this. It's difficult to express how deeply and personally offensive I find your attempted analogies. I'm going to assume you did not mean them to be daggers and answer your questions.

Here is the issue at American adult can marry one adult of legal age, non-related who has consented to marry them. We want that right extended so that one adult may chose another adult of the same gender.

That is the entire issue.

That automatically excludes children, animals and polygamy. Courts do not decide slippery slopes.

Those of us who are fighting so hard for gay marriage as certainly not pushing pedophilia or bestiality. It hurts a great deal to see my son, and other GLBTQ people's sexuality put in the same category as those heinous, criminal acts.

Lori said...

Wait, why are people implying that Courtney would be in trouble with the church if she disagreed publicly with Packer's talk? Is that just being said by people who are anti-Mormon? She's just a lay member, who doesn't speak for the church officially, why couldn't she say what she felt if she wanted to. I really don't want to believe that's true about the LDS church.

Charlotte said...

I think you have missed my point entirely. I had only hoped to point out that people feel stigmas, pain or hurt for a variety of reasons. I do believe in allowing people to discern for themselves how they feel about subjects based on their own personal experience that is sometimes impossible to convey to another.

(To me there is a difference between a stigma one feels and discrimination by another.)

Regardless of beliefs, which I am sure no one will ever agree on, all we can do is be kind.

I wonder if cjane knew how much it was gonna cost her to give everyone a penny for their thoughts? ;)

Anonymous said...

Maybe someone can enlighten me, I don't see the difference between gay marriage and polygamy.

Pedophilia is a crime only because society has deemed it so.

And what if a person did say, I was born attracted to animals, God made me this way and who am I hurting?

Amanda said...

Dear Anonymous,

Never mind the blog. This COMMENT SECTION is like a car wreck, and I just can't look away. Nor refrain from commenting, it seems...

Love, A Procrastinating College Student

Anonymous said...

Dear c-jane commenters
Who gives about the gays and their agenda. Why don't you focus your energy on the autism epidemic that actually effects peoples everyday lives and sanity.

Gays and Lesbians maybe you should do the same thing and stop worrying about yourself and focus on others and maybe you would not be so sad and feel bad about how society is giving you a raw deal! Stop being victims! Stop worrying about what you don't have and focus on what you do.

The Autie Project is a documentary mini-series currently in production. it's goal is to showcase children and adults on the Autism spectrum taking a deep look into the hearts and minds of people born set apart.

rebecca said...

Lori - yes, that is true...especially since she is such a well-known public figure in Provo (not to mention who her family is). No hate-mongering here, just sad. My in-laws are devout mormons and they will never say that outloud, but read between the lines and it is there. My girlfriend (yes, lesbian) was just contacted by the church because they wanted to know where she is (they keep track of each other) and the smart arse that I am, said "Oh, why don't you just tell them you are a lesbian" so they will leave you alone. Her response almost made me cry - she said that she might, but then the church would encourage her family to distance themselves from her an not associate with her, etc, etc. I was just being funny because I'm not mormon and this "mormon's not approving of homosexuals" thing doesn't really pertain to me - but that really kind of upset me that she would be ostracized ny her family for telling the church the truth. Right now the "love the sinner, hate the sin", but she is still considered family. Like I said, no one will really say it outloud, but underlying, it's there. And they'll deny it because it makes them look...uncompassionate, shall we say?

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